Netherlands - iNaturalist World Tour

The Netherlands are the 27th stop on the iNaturalist World Tour. Efforts of the 50 top observers are fairly well distributed across the relatively small country. Several like @michaelbakkerpaiva and @ahospers are based in the northern part of the country. Others such as @hermanberteler, @nagelhoutandre, and @mirandaengelshoven are based more in the center and south.



The observations per month graph has a peak in August, 2018. This is when we assisted @ahospers copy his observations from the Observation.org platform. This coincided with the Biodiversity4All migration in Portugal which also involved Observation.org observations. But ignoring that somewhat artificial peak, the number of observations per month has ramped up rapidly in the summer of 2019.



@borisb, @ronrave, and @ldacosta lead both in overall identifications in the Netherlands and also for the top categories: insects, plants, and birds respectively. Many thanks to other top identifiers lending European expertise including @alexis_orion @stephen and @wouterteunissen.



How can we make iNaturalist better in the Netherlands? Please share your thoughts below or on this forum thread

@michaelbakkerpaiva @hermanberteler @ahospers @nagelhoutandre @mirandaengelshoven @ldacosta @ronrave @borisb @alexis_orion @stephen54

We’ll be back tomorrow with Switzerland!

Publicado por loarie loarie, 20 de julio de 2019

Comentarios

Thanks, amazing that in 2019, without i thought any support with ambassadeurs, influencers or evangelists or institutes, the growth is so rapidly. In June2017 it was only the 57th place https://photos.app.goo.gl/SUhW9XDvv8fSXrsQ8 (

350%, April 2019 4.800 < - April2018 1.400
350%, May 2019 7.000 < - June2018 2.000
400%, Jun2019 8.000 < - June2018 2.000
450%, July2019 9.000 < - July 2018 2.000
00%, Aug2019 8.000 < - Aug2018 8.000 (Import!!)
200%, Sept2019 6.000 < - Sept2018 2.500
350%, Okto2019 6.000 < - Okt2018 1700
350%, Nov2019 3.000 < - Nov2018 1300
90%, Dec2019 1500 < - Dec2018 835 < - Dec2017 235
330%Jan2020 1700 < - 200%, Jan19 500 < - 150%Jan18 315 < -Jan17 181
180%feb2020 1900 < - 200%, Feb19 1253 < - 180%Feb18 #617 < -Feb17 #376
180%Mrt2020 2800 <-300%, Mar 2019 1.800 <- Since which date there are Dutch vernicual names available ? As mentioned in earlier (https://www.inaturalist.org/blog/26012-france-inaturalist-world-tour) especially the birders often have their own systems and in France the plants (PlantNet). I think most Dutch people will use iNaturlist outside. I heard several Dutch people very positive about iNaturalist in New Sealand. I think the import of observations in aug2018 also makes the AI/Computer vision work rather good.

1) Exchange of data with observado or cooperation
2) Mapping of data with observado. The Annotation system of iNaturalist seems to be a bit free format.
3) There are many common (vernicular, local) names in Dutch. Excellent!!! Maybe that was the trigger to take off with observations..(or the translation of the website)
4) Improve offline apps ? Altough it takes knowledge and time to install the observado apps they are very fast and easy when they are finally ready, without internet..

I expect an language button top right and not down right. I think al menu options in the bottom are difficult to find including Help (!!!)

@loarie thanks for the import last year! When i start visiting the site more often in 2017 Wouter Teuni. was everywhere but he is international busy and not local ? He is not in the statistics ? I only know one project ( I thought it was a BioBlitz) https://www.inaturalist.org/projects/inventaris-drielanden-knnv-nl in the Netherlands so projects are not popular but last 2 years i more often heard the word BioBlitz.

Notes
Observation Fields, Annotations https://www.inaturalist.org/observation_fields/
https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/lets-talk-annotations/627/78
Annotations Seasability larve
https://static.inaturalist.org/wiki_page_attachments/831-original.png
France world tour
https://www.inaturalist.org/blog/26012-france-inaturalist-world-tour
Exchange Darwin Core
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_Core_Archive
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_Metadata_Language
Data Quality Assesment (Trips)
https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/a-question-on-data-quality-assessment/5187
Trips, Numbers, Effort
https://www.inaturalist.org/trips
https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/trips-feature-on-inat/3061 since it was moved to this thread from where I put it, for context this was written in response to closing the request to add a way to note presence/absence data on the site stating that the trips function already existed to do that. https://www.inaturalist.org/pages/trips https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/observations-of-absence-vs-presence/1298/25 https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/allow-users-to-record-absence-data/2779/7 https://www.inaturalist.org/trips/tabulate?filters%5Btaxon_id%5D=36204
Places
https://www.inaturalist.org/check_lists/982798-Tokai-Park-Check-List
https://www.inaturalist.org/Places
https://www.inaturalist.org/places/groningen
Naamlijst Checklist
https://www.inaturalist.org/check_lists/1579594-Naamlijst-van-de-vaatplanten-in-Nederland
https://www.inaturalist.org/check_lists/1579594-Naamlijst-van-de-vaatplanten-in-Nederland?view=plain
WikiData nederlandse namen https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q63762875?
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Main_Page https://twitter.com/andrawaag/status/1131879815420637184 Belgian Species List is now available under a CC0,
Freqency https://www.inaturalist.org/observations?place_id=7506&taxon_id=26036&view=species

In June2017 it was only the 57th place https://photos.app.goo.gl/SUhW9XDvv8fSXrsQ8 and Nr40 in this list https://www.inaturalist.org/blog/11671-how-international-is-inaturalist

Publicado por ahospers hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

Great to see that the Netherlands contributes so intensively.
What I would see as an important improvement is the implementation of waarneming.nl
Now I register everything twice, both in waarneming.nl and in iNaturalist, with the exception of my South African observations that I only contribute to iNaturalist.

Publicado por hermanberteler hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

@hermanberteler can you explain what you mean by implementing waarneming.nl a bit more?

Publicado por loarie hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

I mean that my observations entered within waarneming.nl are automatically included within iNaturalist. So all observations of waarneming.nl should be entered automatically within iNaturalist.

Publicado por hermanberteler hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

Got it, thanks. The iNaturalist public API has everything that waarneming.nl would need to make a tool for a user on waarneming.nl to import their iNat observations into waarneming.nl. But as far as we're aware, waarneming.nl doesn't have the public API's that we'd need to do to build the opposite (import from waarneming.nl. to iNaturalist). We have built something like this for importing from Mushroom Observer (which does have great public APIs). But I should also say that we think of iNaturalist as a community first (rather than a database). The site is optimized to facilitate interaction between observers and identifiers (and other social interaction) and the to make the data easy to export into external databases and archives (like GBIF etc.). So we'd prefer data is generated through iNaturalist and exported to other sites that do focus more on archiving data rather than the other way around.

Publicado por loarie hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

@ahospers I think the growth can be explained by the crappy new Waarneming.nl site. Every serious observer I talked about this, complains about the new site (Which used to be a very user friendly and very original site and is nowadays a iNaturalist clone... and then much worse than iNaturalist. They only copied the wrong things from iNaturalist and got rid of the good stuff that the old site offered. The old site is still online and used by almost everybody i know... I wonder what will happen if they take the old site offline... I think that will mean many more users for iNaturalist).

@loarie Data of iNaturalist is really inferior to other sites. E.g. iNaturalist is really based on photos only. My observations are however fot 90% non-photo. I don't like it that I cannot record them properly on iNaturalist, that's a major turnoff.

An other improverment would be if you could improve the "places" tab. I once mailed you what this improvement could look like.

And then I also think iNaturalist should make it possible to add quantitative data. Please make this possible. E.g. rare birds in western Europe have a high amount of observers. In iNaturalist data, you then can't distinct between original distribution and rare migrants. That's really rediculous, I want to add numbers to my sightings.

Publicado por wouterteunissen hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

Thank you for your explanation and information.

Publicado por hermanberteler hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

@wouterteunissen - you can add quantitative data. Use the observation fields.
But I suspect that you want or need more than just adding quantitative data - do you want to map and graph it as well?

By way of example: please see - https://www.inaturalist.org/projects/wlt-monitoring - this manages toad data for:

sex age data: https://www.inaturalist.org/observation_fields/7486
living state data: https://www.inaturalist.org/observation_fields/7487
female state: https://www.inaturalist.org/observation_fields/7488
direction: https://www.inaturalist.org/observation_fields/7489
size: https://www.inaturalist.org/observation_fields/9141

With a little buyin, it should be quite easily to get people from Netherlands and surrounds to use a "numbers seen" field.
See what we have accomplished in southern Africa with a Habitat field:
https://www.inaturalist.org/projects/habitats-s-afr &
https://www.inaturalist.org/observation_fields/7498

It can be done without having to break the box

Publicado por tonyrebelo hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

Thanks for the feedback @wouterteunissen - can you explain what you mean by not being able to properly record observations without photos? Also sorry for missing the message about places can you link to that here or repost to the forum? Also, can you explain why adding ‘count’ using observation fields doesn’t offer what you need?

Publicado por loarie hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

@woutertheunisse
-There are annotations, a bit hidden. I would expect that it would be easier to upgrade the quality of an observation by giving additional information but it seems iNaturalist choose to put this in projects which can have their own observations fields if i am right https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/add-annotations-when-creating-observations/1513. Very flexible but now you need many projects to serve everybody and difficult to export to third parties like GBIF. Maybe this can be solved by Darwin, a method i did not fully understood but iNaturalist supports. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_Core_Archive

-As mentioned above the language button, Forum and Help were (too) hard to find in the bottom. I do not see the advantage of (another) platform like GBIF. In my opinion it is convenient if all the data is on one place and easy to reach. My Bolivian butterflies are determined rather well in iNaturalist(very unfortunately half is missing by my mistake) but i doubt if GBIF will determine my Bolivia butterflies. But there are indeed import options without photos https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/import#csv_import but it seems Michael also experienced problems and id did not succeed either in about 2014.
https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/csv-import-error/1251
But with so many observation fields it is difficult to exchange to others/GBIF without the loss of many meta description data.
I think a lot of Dutch people will prefer iNaturlist outside Europe but observado within the Benelux.

Publicado por ahospers hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

[I think the growth can be explained by the crappy new Waarneming.nl site.]
I am not sure about this. The web uploader is very good but the apps do not work as good as waarneming.nl. And the support for common names is bad compared to waarneming.nl. I am lucky that https://twitter.com/andrawaag/status/1131879815420637184 Belgian Species List is now available under a CC0, is seems to be a major improvement. iNaturalist was famous because they had a computer vision app for the iPhone.

Publicado por optilete hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

I am flattered to see that I am mentioned as the top identifier for mammals in the Netherlands (although I might be about to ruin that for myself). How is that metric calculated? When exploring mammals in the Netherlands, other identifiers appear higher up that list.

On a side note, I agree with @wouterteunissen that the number of individuals should be a standard field on par with life stage and sex and, more importantly, be part of the Darwin Core Archive going to GBIF. It is one of the most universal and important metrics of an observation. Besides, it could be used for reporting absence data in the future, the lack of which is the single most important shortcoming of citizen science data IMHO.

Publicado por wouterkoch hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

I am happy to see my picture up on the map, personally, I started using iNaturalist when I spent a year in New Zealand and now use it in conjunction with waarneming.nl. I think the computer vision on the iOS app is superb and I mainly use it for domains whichI'm not so well-versed in, such as plants and insects. I hope we can grow further because I think that a good community can contribute a lot to this site.

Publicado por fredderks hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

That reminds me, I have never really used waarneming.nl myself as at least at the time, I found iNaturalist superior in terms of putting open licenses on my content and sharing with GBIF. But I do have an account there still, which I use for their machine learning algorithm. In my experience it outperforms iNaturalist in the Netherlands, and with some caution also elsewhere in Europe. I especially like the degree of certainty the algorithm reports, that really helps. Also, using multiple pictures of the same individual helps the identification. But once I have my answer, I go to iNaturalist to report it ;)

Publicado por wouterkoch hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

@loarie I didn't get a notification for the mention here either...
should I make a bug report on the forum?
thanks for mentioning me in the post as well, I'm always glad to help with ID's!

Publicado por alexis_orion hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

@wouterkoch "the number of individuals should be a standard field ... is one of the most universal and important metrics of an observation ... it could be used for reporting absence data ..."
Since iNat is an evidence based site (pictures and sounds), how does one report absences? What does a "European-Sparrow-not-here" look or sound like when one records it? Are you proposing recycling old or previous photographs from the area? But how do we know that your identification was correct when you report an absence?
There are statistical methods of calculating abundance from the reporting rate, or sequence and time taken to be seen, but to use this on iNat requires pictures of all the species, in the order seen (and the time stamp). This can be done for plants, fungi and sessile animals, but for many animals it is far more difficult, with subjects escaping or moving off before being photographed.
Recording absences is far more difficult than recording presences. A presence is a datum on its own, more useful with some measure of effort, but absences need far more ancillary data - effort, period, area, competence, conditions - to be at all useful.

Publicado por tonyrebelo hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

@loarie - link on the home page for the Switzerland update still points here.

Publicado por cmcheatle hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

Within Europe the Naturalis Leiden machine learning is the best was a conclusion of the University of Berlin, who asked for a license on de CV of Naturalis Leiden. I liked the Naturalis webversion but dislike the Naturalis/Observado implementation on the iphone so iNaturalist California CV works better for me
(,which I use for their machine learning algorithm. In my experience it outperforms iNaturalist in the Netherlands, and with some caution also elsewhere in Europe. I especially like the degree of certainty the algorithm)

For braakballen they take 50 braakballen and if the little mammal, mice is not in the braakbal there is an absence. One can submit an observation with the value or Number 0, zero.
So Sparrow Number 0 is suffient (What does a "European-Sparrow-not-here" look or sound like when one records it? )

@loarie I do get notifications in my dasboard on the location where i should expect the language switch; Top Right corner. And recently i also saw mentions in the email the notifications were present.

Publicado por ahospers hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

The 'count' observation fields can be used to record count data, but I'm not sure how one would statistically interpret that data since there's no info on sampling. Most data structures that record abundance or absence (e.g. Humboldt-core, eBird-checklists etc.) use the same data structure you can set up with iNat trips - ie time spent looking, area searched, species searched for etc.
@wouterkoch I think you found the right place but the figures are generated once a month so things must have changed since then re: top mammal IDers.
@alexis_orion I messaged you about the notification but I think all is good
thanks @cmcheatle fixed
Would people be supportive of moving the language switcher in the top menu? Real-estate is scarce there...

Publicado por loarie hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

I would be more in support of keeping it where it is.
You could make a feature request on the forum though, since more people might see it there.

Publicado por alexis_orion hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

It took weeks before I found out that there actually is a Help and Forum menus. I should put all menu options availble above, and this does not have to be a button but also a drop down more layer(more depth, more branches) menu.

Publicado por ahospers hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

@wouterkoch After the import of the data of @ahospers the Computer Vision algorithm seems to be much better. I think that this import and the translation of the website is one of the reasons the website became more popular. Why should you enter your data in an empty website? I personally should skip it. I made some bug reports and feature requests about the apps cause they are not as good as alternative websites offer...

Common names
https://www.inaturalist.org/check_lists/1579594-Naamlijst-van-de-vaatplanten-in-Nederland?commit=Filteren&establishment_means=any&observed=any&occurrence_status=not_absent&rank=species&taxon=48571&taxonomic_status=active&threatened=any&view=plain

I do not see many comments about the common names but when you take a look about plants who looks like grasses or grow into the water, the less popular plants, they have no common names. For one group, the skunk weeds I fixed this my self cause it is a small group. https://www.inaturalist.org/check_lists/1581737-Naamlijst-van-Nederlandse-Kranswieren---Charofytes- But for mushrooms there is a long way to go. https://www.inaturalist.org/check_lists/1582571-Naamlijst-van-de-Nederlandse-Paddenstoelen?page=8

And in the statistics The Netherlands should have around 40.000 observations accoording this blog. When you click on the link below you find 100.000 lost observations. I expect the correct number is 138,897 observations. Something to keep in mind when you read a blog from iNaturalist.... https://www.inaturalist.org/observations?place_id=7506&subview=grid&verifiable=any

Publicado por optilete hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

@tonyrebelo I'm not saying it's easy or that the number of individuals alone would be sufficient. Perhaps I got a bit carried away, my main point was reporting numbers >0, but I'm currently doing a PhD on this exact issue in citizen science so I could not resist mentioning it. Inferring (pseudo) absences will always be inferior to actual reports (with all the metadata on taxonomic scope, methods and effort). It won't be a feature for most users, but it's the data we need so the possibility would be welcome.

Publicado por wouterkoch hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

Using observation field the option exists. And the means to manage it via a Project. But bear in mind that iNaturalist at present is a virtual museum site - confirmation of observations by pictures is the modus operandus - it is not a checklist site or field-record site. Think of it as a site where citizens can post specimens instead of killing the organisms and sending them to a museum or herbarium: that is its primary purpose is a data repository. ((although for a lot of users it can best be viewed as obtaining IDs without having to catch or pluck the organism, pickle or dry it, and send it to a museum for ID - and with this philosophy, the principle that the too few specialists or experts can be freed up by having anyone interested help with the IDs)).

Publicado por tonyrebelo hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

If it doesn't go to GBIF it might as well not exist at all. But I think this misunderstanding is because I mentioned absence as a side note., the point was numbers above zero. Surely, there is a difference between seeing 100 individuals of a species somewhere or just one, even if nothing is reported on effort or methodology.

Publicado por wouterkoch hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

Not true: there is lots of excellent data that GBIF is not interested in: such as urban trees, if planted - which are crucial to the ecology of our urban landscapes, and for instance might allow us to predict the expansion of Polyphagous Shothole Borer and the deforestation of many urban suburbs.

Yes. 1 or 100 matter, but it depends on other data: my garden or my town in area for example. A number on its own could be worse than no number ...

Publicado por tonyrebelo hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

I don't know where you found that GBIF is not interested in cultivated plants for instance, those I know best within the network are interested in exactly that. As for the number, as with any statistic: ignore it if it does not match your purpose, but let's not have that as a reason not to collect it. It may be perfect for some other researcher.

All bickering aside, we were asked for feedback, wouterteunissen gave some that I happened to agree with, while you disagree. I think we both gave our feedback on this issue, we don't need to convince each other.

Publicado por wouterkoch hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

Dont see it as bickering.

The issue is how to make iNaturalist draw more users than other established sites> The problem is that - for example - Waarneming handles list and count data without pictures in a way that iNat is not currently designed to do. Both sites have their plus and negative sides. But neither can easily substitute for the other.

We must not be too enthusiastic about what iNat can do - although as you pointed out, it is equally pointless being too negative. We should play to our strengths (easy and rapid IDs, ID verification, plasticity in any number of additional data fields, projects to easily manage these, easy access to raw data), but remembering that without careful protocols, project promotion, extra data validation, and acknowledging what iNat cannot do well (null data, data without validation), we run the risk of overselling iNat and ending up with frustration and bitterness. There is so much fantastic about iNaturalist that we do not (and should not) need to try and make it do everything.

Publicado por tonyrebelo hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

Very much appreciate the feedback @wouterkoch and @wouterteunissen!

Publicado por loarie hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

Agreed! I wasn't necessarily comparing to just waarneming by the way. There's a reason I am quite active on iNaturalist, even though I am a full time employee of one of its competitors/alternatives and collaborate with waarneming within my work. That reason is that for me personally as a user, iNaturalist is the best match. And it's exactly the simplicity and the fantastic community that make it so good :)

Publicado por wouterkoch hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

Then that is what we need to promote!!

I on the other hand especially enjoy it for the maps, summaries, identification tools (but I want to do subspecies!!), and above all the taxon pages with their different tabs. It is the ease of extracting and viewing data that appeal to me most! [[and being able to go and fill in the blanks on the map and hunt down the missing species!!]]

Publicado por tonyrebelo hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

Also many species https://www.verspreidingsatlas.nl/soortenlijst/vaatplanten from the Dutch checklist are missing, like Rubus are missing, but at this moment this kind of problem does niet seem very important.

Publicado por optilete hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

How on earth does one tell over 200 species of Rubus apart from one another?
Please see the flag for Rubus ... https://www.inaturalist.org/flags/328829

Publicado por tonyrebelo hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

the answer for many people (me included) would be; one doesn't ;-)

Publicado por alexis_orion hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

How on earth does one tell over 200 species of Rubus apart from one another?
By starting out as an Astragalus expert, and saying 'screw it, I need to move to something simpler'

Publicado por cmcheatle hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

I see apart from some Andean alpines, the southern hemisphere is spared this Astrangulation.

Publicado por tonyrebelo hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

It would be nice if one could sort on taxonomy in these kind of overviews:
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations?place_id=7506&subview=grid&view=species

Now all species are intermixed, that's because they are sorted on date added.
while I would like to see them sorted on taxonomy, so related species next to each other.

Publicado por wouterteunissen hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

I thought they are sorted by number of observations?

Publicado por alexis_orion hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

@wouterteunissen we're working on that now

Publicado por loarie hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

@loarie that sounds great!! looking forward to it!

Publicado por wouterteunissen hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

@wouterteunissen - you can already see it in taxonomic order. See:
https://www.inaturalist.org/check_lists/7862-Netherlands-Check-List?commit=Filter&establishment_means=any&observed=t&occurrence_status=not_absent&page=&q=&rank=leaves&taxon=&taxonomic_status=active&threatened=any&view=plain
(go to Place, set place to Netherlands, on the species page, select checklist and choose your filter conditions on the right.)
But what do you want to use it for? Surely that will determine the best tool for the task.

The problem with having related species next to each other assumes that you have a very fine-level taxonomy: A genus with 100 species and no subgeneric classification will not have closely related species next to each other. ((unless what @loarie is working on is an AI similarity tool between pictures and species)).

Publicado por tonyrebelo hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

Something like this indeed:
https://www.inaturalist.org/check_lists/7862-Netherlands-Check-List?commit=Filter&establishment_means=any&observed=t&occurrence_status=not_absent&page=&q=&rank=leaves&taxon=&taxonomic_status=active&threatened=any&view=plain

However the icons are way to small and the look of the page too old fashioned.

Why I want it? I want to have a quick ordered view of the biodiversity of a place.
secondly I want to use it as a personal fieldguide: what can I expect, which sibling species occur in the same region?

"The problem with having related species next to each other assumes that you have a very fine-level taxonomy: A genus with 100 species and no subgeneric classification will not have closely related species next to each other. ((unless what @loarie is working on is an AI similarity tool between pictures and species))."
I don't understand what you are saying?

Publicado por wouterteunissen hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

One of the best things of the old waarneming.nl site, were the recorded associations between species. This led to fantastic pages like this one:
https://oudeversie.waarneming.nl/soort/info/7286

Scroll down to find out which species live on oak in the Netherlands.
This was built from zero by observations of users, who recorded that they found a catterpillar of a certain species on the oak.

These relationships are now nowhere in the new crappy waarneming.nl site, they threw away the best parts of the old site... such a shame.

Publicado por wouterteunissen hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

The explore tool shows the set of species that a group of observation (e.g. Reptiles of the Netherlands) represents ordered by frequency. There is a clunky, unscalable, undocumented tool to do the same ordered by taxonomy. iNaturalist also has checklists using the separate iNaturalist list infrastructure which do sort by taxonomy but work really differently than this business of visualizing a group of observations as the set of species they represent. Lists do some unexpected things e.g. people can add/remove listings independent of observations and can get out of sync with observations -as I tried to describe here. The proximal motivation for coming up with a more efficient way of visualizing a group of observations as the set of species they represent sorted taxonomically is to replace lifelists (which isn't scaling because its using the list infrastructure). But we can then use this tool to add a taxonomic sort to the species tab of the explore tool.

Publicado por loarie hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)
Publicado por optilete hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

@loarie if I understand you correctly, you could use the clunky, unscalable, undocumented tool (this one: https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/taxa?place_id=7506&taxon_id=26036&verifiable=true&rank=species) for sorting in the filters pop-up with https://www.inaturalist.org/observations?place_id=7506&taxon_id=26036&view=species.

That's exactly what I am looking for!

Like you already say, you could also use it for your own listing!

Publicado por wouterteunissen hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

"I don't understand what you are saying?"
Somehow iNaturalist needs to know which are closely related species. If all you have is this:
https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/47544-Rubus
This is over 100 species, but there is no subgenera, sections or subsections. iNaturalist cannot group these into related species, because it does not know which species are related to which.
The best that iNaturalist would be able to do without this is by abundance, favourites, date, picture size or alphabetically.

To get this to work one will need to either:

add in the subgeneric classification , or
develop some image recognition system that groups similar looking species.

Publicado por tonyrebelo hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

@tonyrebelo I thinkI understand what you are saying. But I don't think that's such a big problem. As long as all Rubus (sub)species will stick together and don't show up between other genera of plants, then there's no very big problem. It's an illusion to get taxonomy right, it's constantly changeing. The only thing you could do, is to get it a little bit better everytime,step by step.

image recognition is a diferent thing. It's nice, but it has nothing to do with taxonomy (or at least not all). Both are nice and need development!

Publicado por wouterteunissen hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

I am not so sure. Until we had DNA was taxonomy not just image recognition? Even with DNA is it not just character matching?

Publicado por tonyrebelo hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)
Publicado por wouterteunissen hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

Ah, well if you allow yourself to be fooled by a few features, then you are not looking at enough features.
Personally I find it far more fascinating when closely-related (and even not that closely related) species look utterly different. And especially when supposedly plesiomorphic characters turn out to be apomorphic - such as specialized generalists!

Publicado por tonyrebelo hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

Well "Ah, well if you allow yourself to be fooled by a few features, then you are not looking at enough features" yes, but that's what all the AI programs do at the moment. Most of them only look at pixels and only the outer shell of a taxon.

In Holland the AI of waarneming.nl created from a picture of a ditch a 100% certain Baikal teal! At first i didn't understand, until i realised that there were a few hundred pictures of a same individual (a twitched vagrant) on the side of a ditch. The AI, learned that the side of the ditch was part of the bailkal teal... 😂

Publicado por wouterteunissen hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

We get it too: a pile of rocks is a Dassie (1) and a Klipspringer (2). But then is habitat not an essential part of a species' biology? Any good biologist will be able to tell you at a glance if the species could be there or not, sometimes from km away!! Why denigrate AI when it can do the same?

Publicado por tonyrebelo hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

@tonyrebelo “Personally I find it far more fascinating when closely-related (and even not that closely related) species look utterly different.”

It’s almost as if, instead of evolving from one another or from a common ancestor, they just possess common design elements coming from a common Designer . . .

Then there are the not-closely-related species that look very similar!

Publicado por shelley_b hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

An overview like this has NO location and no date and no time and something like 1mo which is, i think, not very helpfull. It is not a good idea to include location, date and time ?
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations?created_d1=2019-07-24&created_d2=2019-07-26&place_id=any&subview=grid&user_id=ahospers&verifiable=any

Publicado por ahospers hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

@ahospers I agree, but it's not as bad as you think. If you filter on date observed instead of date added, you'll get this:
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations?created_d1=2019-07-24&created_d2=2019-07-26&order_by=observed_on&place_id=any&subview=grid&user_id=ahospers&verifiable=any

That said, it's not possible to view your personal observations from the month July (and I mean over several years).

That's also a thing you would like to be able to filter on, in the Places menu item! with leading question: "What can I expect, when I go to a specific area in the month of July?" @loarie

Publicado por wouterteunissen hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

@wouterkoch yes! I think that's nice!
Is there actually also a calender when to expect species in a certain area?

Publicado por wouterteunissen hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

@wouterteunissen -potentially there is: go to the taxon (species) page and look at the phenology graph: change the area that you are looking at to the appropriate locality.
e.g.: for Pincushions (genus) in the western Cape: - ((https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/320033-Leucospermum)) - click the Seasonality tab (or Phenology if you want flowering or fruiting) and on the cog wheel - select: "show relative proportions of all observations". ((https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/320033-Leucospermum)) - change the taxon and the area to your needs.

Publicado por tonyrebelo hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

Well this https://www.inaturalist.org/observations?created_d1=2019-07-24&created_d2=2019-07-26&place_id=any&subview=table&user_id=ahospers&verifiable=any and the old one https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/ahospers is sufficient but why are there No date, No time and NO location in this viewe https://www.inaturalist.org/observations?place_id=any&user_id=ahospers&verifiable=any which would mad e t much much more usefull.
I know how to find the month is 7

Publicado por ahospers hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

And "Agree" and "don't agree" buttons in all the grid pages would be helpful. I would then be much more idebtifying stuff

Publicado por wouterteunissen hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

Because all these pages are for different uses. Dont try and make every page do everything: it wont work.
If you want to ID stuff then use the Identifications tool. See here for how to use it: https://vimeo.com/246153496

Publicado por tonyrebelo hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

@tonyrebelo please let me do my own suggestions and please don't tell me what I should or should not try. I did over 70.000 id's in iNaturalist so i know what i'm talking about. I also did 100,000's of id's in the prehistoric times of observation.org. so i worked with high nummers of id's in two different platforms.
Critisising my ideas is fine, i have no problem with that, but don't stop me making my point on forehand. Sometimes you need fresh views to be able tot expand. Please, at least open yourself for these ideas and have a look at them open minded and then critisise if you don't agree.

I'm simply not viewing the identification pages that often. However i dont mind id-ing stuff while using iNaturalist in e.g. the explore or places pages. When talking for myself, that would mean i would much sooner help people with ID-ing then I'm doing now. Get as many observations reviewed, by as many identifiers, should be core business for the iNaturalist website, i would think.

Publicado por wouterteunissen hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

I understand, but I would never do IDs from the grid or list views: there is simply too little to go on for an accurate ID in the vast majority of the groups I am interested in. I almost never make an ID except in (1) Identification mode, or (2) from a fully visible observation with all its pictures, maps and notes. And I would strongly discourage anyone who asks me (and I appreciate that you did not!) from doing so too.

Publicado por tonyrebelo hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

" I almost never make an ID except in (1) Identification mode, or (2) from a fully visible observation with all its pictures, maps and notes"
Yes, but with birds, plants, lots of mammals, reptiles and amphibians you are often able to tell from grid view and it's then possible to ID hundreds of records in no-time.

Publicado por wouterteunissen hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

That option is available in the ID view: there is an "Agree" button on the thumbnails at species level:
see: https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/identify?place_id=7506
Note:

you can leave it for everything! or choose a group (e.g. birds or plants or mammals, reptiles and amphibians)
it will automatically file everything you have done, so that you don't accidentally "agree again" (to resee them, just click on "reviewed")
to see full particulars, just click on a card, and proceed from there ...

Publicado por tonyrebelo hace alrededor de 2 años (Marca)

It seems i can not edit my highest post, so just a backup
). Since which date there are Dutch vernicual names available ? As mentioned in earlier (https://www.inaturalist.org/blog/26012-france-inaturalist-world-tour) especially the birders often have their own systems and in France the plants (PlantNet). I think most Dutch people will use iNaturlist outside. I heard several Dutch people very positive about iNaturalist in New Sealand. I think the import of observations in aug2018 also makes the AI/Computer vision work rather good.

1) Exchange of data with observado or cooperation
2) Mapping of data with observado. The Annotation system of iNaturalist seems to be a bit free format.
3) There are many common (vernicular, local) names in Dutch. Excellent!!! Maybe that was the trigger to take off with observations..(or the translation of the website)
4) Improve offline apps ? Altough it takes knowledge and time to install the observado apps they are very fast and easy when they are finally ready, without internet..

I expect an language button top right and not down right. I think al menu options in the bottom are difficult to find including Help (!!!)

@loarie thanks for the import last year! When i start visiting the site more often in 2017 Wouter Teuni. was everywhere but he is international busy and not local ? He is not in the statistics ? I only know one project ( I thought it was a BioBlitz) https://www.inaturalist.org/projects/inventaris-drielanden-knnv-nl in the Netherlands so projects are not popular but last 2 years i more often heard the word BioBlitz.

It would be nice if exports from waarneming.nl could easyli be imported into iNaturalistso i still can use the wrn.nl apps for offline recording.
I still do not know how place works but it is inconvenient that photos without GPS coordinates are somewhere in the ocean instead of my current location are a selection of recently used locations, which would save a lot of time. And the use of annotations is to extensive..too much.one often only needs a few default fields (number, plumage, sex) with the correct list of values. so the introduction of anotation is a good thing altough they should show by default on record, insert, submit page.
The figures in the map are generated once a month

Notes
Observation Fields, Annotations https://www.inaturalist.org/observation_fields/
https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/lets-talk-annotations/627/78
Annotations Seasability larve
https://static.inaturalist.org/wiki_page_attachments/831-original.png
France world tour
https://www.inaturalist.org/blog/26012-france-inaturalist-world-tour
Exchange Darwin Core
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_Core_Archive
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_Metadata_Language
Data Quality Assesment (Trips)
https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/a-question-on-data-quality-assessment/5187
Trips, Numbers, Effort
https://www.inaturalist.org/trips
https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/trips-feature-on-inat/3061 since it was moved to this thread from where I put it, for context this was written in response to closing the request to add a way to note presence/absence data on the site stating that the trips function already existed to do that. https://www.inaturalist.org/pages/trips https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/observations-of-absence-vs-presence/1298/25 https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/allow-users-to-record-absence-data/2779/7 https://www.inaturalist.org/trips/tabulate?filters%5Btaxon_id%5D=36204
Places
https://www.inaturalist.org/check_lists/982798-Tokai-Park-Check-List
https://www.inaturalist.org/Places
https://www.inaturalist.org/places/groningen
Naamlijst Checklist
https://www.inaturalist.org/check_lists/1579594-Naamlijst-van-de-vaatplanten-in-Nederland
https://www.inaturalist.org/check_lists/1579594-Naamlijst-van-de-vaatplanten-in-Nederland?view=plain
WikiData nederlandse namen https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q63762875?
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Main_Page https://twitter.com/andrawaag/status/1131879815420637184 Belgian Species List is now available under a CC0,
Freqency https://www.inaturalist.org/observations?place_id=7506&taxon_id=26036&view=species

In June2017 it was only the 57th place https://photos.app.goo.gl/SUhW9XDvv8fSXrsQ8 and Nr40 in this list https://www.inaturalist.org/blog/11671-how-international-is-inaturalist

Publicado por ahospers hace más de 1 año (Marca)

https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/netherlands-inaturalist-world-tour/5180

The issues with level1 and level2 are not resolved yet..

''Here’s the GADM Level 1 and Level 2 places we’re using. Thoughts on these places?
Any issues with Dutch common names? -->many cause they are still in English
What can we do to get more people in the Netherlands participating in iNaturalist?

What are the thoughts of level 1:
Zeeuwse meren
IJsselmeer
I think they should be moved to level2?

Publicado por optilete hace más de 1 año (Marca)

I edit apost but now it disappead?

anks, amazing that in 2019, without i thought any support with ambassadeurs, influencers or evangelists or institutes, the growth is so rapidly. In June2017 it was only the 57th place https://photos.app.goo.gl/SUhW9XDvv8fSXrsQ8 (

350%, April 2019 4.800 < - April2018 1.400
350%, May 2019 7.000 < - June2018 2.000
400%, Jun2019 8.000 < - June2018 2.000
450%, July2019 9.000 < - July 2018 2.000
00%, Aug2019 8.000 < - Aug2018 8.000 (Import!!)
200%, Sept2019 6.000 < - Sept2018 2.500
350%, Okto2019 6.000 < - Okt2018 1700
350%, Nov2019 3.000 < - Nov2018 1300
90%, Dec2019 1500 < - Dec2018 835 < - Dec2017 235
330%Jan2020 1700 < - 200%, Jan19 500 < - 150%Jan18 315 < -Jan17 181
180%feb2020 1900 < - 200%, Feb19 1253 < - 180%Feb18 #617 < -Feb17 #376
180%Mrt2020 2800 <-300%, Mar 2019 1.800 <- Mar2018 800 < - Mar2017 900
). Since which date there are Dutch vernicual names available ? As mentioned in earlier (https://www.inaturalist.org/blog/26012-france-inaturalist-world-tour) especially the birders often have their own systems and in France the plants (PlantNet). I think most Dutch people will use iNaturlist outside. I heard several Dutch people very positive about iNaturalist in New Sealand. I think the import of observations in aug2018 also makes the AI/Computer vision work rather good.

1) Exchange of data with observado or cooperation
2) Mapping of data with observado. The Annotation system of iNaturalist seems to be a bit free format.
3) There are many common (vernicular, local) names in Dutch. Excellent!!! Maybe that was the trigger to take off with observations..(or the translation of the website)
4) Improve offline apps ? Altough it takes knowledge and time to install the observado apps they are very fast and easy when they are finally ready, without internet..

I expect an language button top right and not down right. I think al menu options in the bottom are difficult to find including Help (!!!)

@loarie thanks for the import last year! When i start visiting the site more often in 2017 Wouter Teuni. was everywhere but he is international busy and not local ? He is not in the statistics ? I only know one project ( I thought it was a BioBlitz) https://www.inaturalist.org/projects/inventaris-drielanden-knnv-nl in the Netherlands so projects are not popular but last 2 years i more often heard the word BioBlitz.

Notes
Observation Fields, Annotations https://www.inaturalist.org/observation_fields/
https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/lets-talk-annotations/627/78
Annotations Seasability larve
https://static.inaturalist.org/wiki_page_attachments/831-original.png
France world tour
https://www.inaturalist.org/blog/26012-france-inaturalist-world-tour
Exchange Darwin Core
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_Core_Archive
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_Metadata_Language
Data Quality Assesment (Trips)
https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/a-question-on-data-quality-assessment/5187
Trips, Numbers, Effort
https://www.inaturalist.org/trips
https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/trips-feature-on-inat/3061 since it was moved to this thread from where I put it, for context this was written in response to closing the request to add a way to note presence/absence data on the site stating that the trips function already existed to do that. https://www.inaturalist.org/pages/trips https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/observations-of-absence-vs-presence/1298/25 https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/allow-users-to-record-absence-data/2779/7 https://www.inaturalist.org/trips/tabulate?filters%5Btaxon_id%5D=36204
Places
https://www.inaturalist.org/check_lists/982798-Tokai-Park-Check-List
https://www.inaturalist.org/Places
https://www.inaturalist.org/places/groningen
Naamlijst Checklist
https://www.inaturalist.org/check_lists/1579594-Naamlijst-van-de-vaatplanten-in-Nederland
https://www.inaturalist.org/check_lists/1579594-Naamlijst-van-de-vaatplanten-in-Nederland?view=plain
WikiData nederlandse namen https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q63762875?
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Main_Page https://twitter.com/andrawaag/status/1131879815420637184 Belgian Species List is now available under a CC0,
Freqency https://www.inaturalist.org/observations?place_id=7506&taxon_id=26036&view=species

In June2017 it was only the 57th place https://photos.app.goo.gl/SUhW9XDvv8fSXrsQ8 and Nr40 in this list https://www.inaturalist.org/blog/11671-how-international-is-inaturalist

Publicado por ahospers hace más de 1 año (Marca)

Around dec 2018 the website was translated into Dutch.

Dutch common names are updated for the next species: https://www.inaturalist.org/check_lists/1581744-Naamlijst-van-de-Nederlandse-Mossen?page=8
https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/311249-Bryophyta

Publicado por optilete hace más de 1 año (Marca)

"But I should also say that we think of iNaturalist as a community first (rather than a database). The site is optimized to facilitate interaction between observers and identifiers (and other social interaction) and the to make the data easy to export into external databases and archives (like GBIF etc.)"
See also https://github.com/inaturalist/inaturalist/issues/2622

@hermanberteler At this moment it is also possible to import csv files but this option seems to disappear in near future....

Publicado por optilete hace más de 1 año (Marca)

Here we're being thanked for all the identifications we done and help we offered to people, but here we are told we did redundant work...:
https://www.inaturalist.org/blog/38475-less-agreeable-observations-more-agreeable-text-formatting

Since @kueda didn't change his opinion and can't see why his message is offending, I asked him to remove all my ID's for others. That were around 75000 ID's, every single one of them checked seriously and with the intention of uplifting the quality of this website... ). I cannot be part of a community that thinks in the way he is describing in his blog message. I'm sorry I won't be ID-ing any longer but maybe we once meet somewhere in Europe.

All the best to you all!

Publicado por wouterteunissen hace alrededor de 1 año (Marca)

Let us be fair. The programmers did restore all the settings back to what they were within a weak.
Please dont think that because a few people think that the site is about observations, and getting a single ID and agreement, and dont fully appreciate the significance of quality identifications by experts and exerienced amateurs (some better than experts), that it is the general consensus.
Data quality are paramount and your contributions are fully appreciated and the uplifting of the quality of the identifications so that they are accurate and reliable, is essential to most observers on the site that are "Citizen Scientists"and want to contribute to science, conservation and the protection of our flora and fauna.
There seems to be quite a difference between the American users of the site, where there is a strong viewpoint (I dont know if it is the majority view, but it is certainly aggressively espoused) that they do not want experts to tell them what there observations are, and the European - and most colonies - where experts and enthusiasts are appreciated and welcome to help teach and mentor us.

I hope that @kueda did not delete your IDs. (otherwise please ask him to re-instate them) It would be a travesty to lose them. And I trust that once you have gotten over your disappointment and frustration, that you will please reconsider and come and help those of us that appreciate your assistance and guidance.

Publicado por tonyrebelo hace alrededor de 1 año (Marca)

'There seems to be quite a difference between the American users of the site, where there is a strong viewpoint (I dont know if it is the majority view, but it is certainly aggressively espoused) that they do not want experts to tell them what there observations are,'

I think this is a really one-sided view of the discussion / debate. And I'm not even American.

What I have seen is never based on people not 'wanting experts to tell them' or have experts be involved, but rather discomfort with any kind of system where the only feedback that matters or counts for anything has to come from an expert.

Publicado por cmcheatle hace alrededor de 1 año (Marca)

You have missed the point. The point is that everyone's help counts, and the more experience and thorough one is the more useful it is.
No one would seriously argue that only experts know: how could one with so many top quality contributors being "amateurs" - many of them as competent or more than many professional experts.
Having read the debates it is extremely anti-reputation system, anti-experts and anti anything that values one identification above another.
Even though it is blatantly obvious that all identifications are not equal, and there are serious problems with inexperience identifiers affecting data quality.
Please leave that debate on the forums
But that is why the agreements were removed. And that is why so many people got upset. And that is why @wouterteunissen got sufficiently frustrated to want to have nothing more to do with iNaturalist.
Please focus on the issue. We want @wouterteunissen and people like him back on iNaturalist and helping us out. At least I do.

Publicado por tonyrebelo hace alrededor de 1 año (Marca)

Regarding Wouter's identifications, he asked us to delete his IDs made for other people when I made this blog post on July 17, 2020 by messaging several people on staff. Scott chose to respond, and I believe he did so, attempting to talk Wouter out of what seemed like an extreme response to a change in functionality that we ultimately reverted. However, Scott had to deal with a family emergency and was unable to reply for over a week, so Wouter messaged me again on August 2 to make the same request. Given the time that had elapsed, I assumed that meant he was unconvinced by Scott's arguments against such a course of action and was resolved to follow through. I offered to only remove the identifications that would not change the Community Taxon or the quality grade of the observations in question, but he was resolved to delete all the identifications he'd ever added for other people. Wouter's IDs are his own to add or delete as he chooses, and while I don't personally agree his response was the right one, I respected his wishes and did what he asked. It's taking a long time, but it should be done in a day or so.

I did run a test before executing this to see what the impact would be, and about 700-800 observations will have their Community Taxon or quality grade affected by these deletions, ~1-2% of the observations Wouter identified. That's unfortunate, but again, they were his identifications to remove.

Publicado por kueda hace alrededor de 1 año (Marca)

That is indeed unfortunate. If only we had known. I am sure we could have helped out. But as you point out, the choice is Wouters. Such a pity.
Thanks.

Publicado por tonyrebelo hace alrededor de 1 año (Marca)

And again, you (@kueda) still haven't got a clue why your post is offensive. Instead of thanking us for all the efforts we made for the website ( E.g. there were plenty wrong ID's that already had research grade...) you're still saying we power users are doing wrong. I still can't imagine why you would do this... I therefore also started to remove some of my own observations as well and won't be adding any new ones either!

Publicado por wouterteunissen hace alrededor de 1 año (Marca)

Wouter - I thank you and all the other iNaturalist users for the efforts you've made. But I would ask that we keep this thread focused on comments relating to iNaturalist in the Netherlands. I'll be back in the office this week and I'm happy to brainstorm ways to improve the Community ID with you on the forum. Or I'd be happy continue talk through you're so offended on the direct message thread. I'm not sure this is what you're looking for but I might humbly, respectfully suggest that maybe no one was trying to offend anyone and there was just miscommunication stemming from everybody being a bit distracted during these crazy times we're all going through as a planet this summer and the fact that communication and cultural differences on the internet often exacerbate misunderstandings. As described in the community guidelines lets all assume we mean well and get back to the important business of photographing frogs and identifying beetles. I'm sure I speak for everyone in the community that we'd all love for you to stay engaged in and contributing to iNaturalist but if you want to take a break there's no harm there either

Publicado por loarie hace alrededor de 1 año (Marca)

Nog een nederlands tintje https://www.sprout.nl/artikel/startups/elastic-nederlands-onbekendste-startup-van-1-miljard De rode draad in zijn ondernemerschap verklaart meteen waarom het grote publiek Schuurman niet kent: hij ontwikkelt open source software ('aan gratis valt toch niets te verdienen?') voor de loodgieters van het internet. Bij ontwikkelaars en techneuten heeft Elastic daarentegen een heldenstatus. De open source-ontwikkelaar lijkt namelijk de heilige graal in handen te hebben.

Databrij
We verzamelen en verstouwen namelijk steeds meer data. Als we erin slagen die goed en snel te analyseren kunnen we klanten beter bedienen, verspilling tegengaan en sneller medicijnen ontwikkelen tegen nare ziektes. Onderweg naar die droom verzuipen we in de terabytes en petabytes en lopen computers vast, op zoek naar waardevolle verbanden in de databrij.

De software van Elastic beheerst de trucs die nodig zijn om gestructureerde en ongestructureerde data zo snel te doorzoeken, dat dat realtime mogelijk is. Daarbij levert het ook gebruiksvriendelijk gereedschap voor de analyse die van marketingalfa's number crunchers maakt en kan het - betalende - gebruikers ook beloven dat alle gegevens veilig worden versleuteld waar regelgevers dat eisen.

Volgens de regels van open source-ontwikkeling hebben de oprichters van Elastic jaren gebouwd aan hun software, waarvan het grootste deel gratis aan de ontwikkelgemeenschap ter beschikking staat. 'We zijn als bedrijf wel uniek, doordat het overgrote deel van de Elastic-community bij ons op de loonlijst staat', zegt Schuurman.

Malaria
Natuurlijk wisten hij dat Elastic op de goede weg was en dat hij nieuwe mogelijkheden opende voor veel gebruikers. 'Maar toen we ergens op een hotelkamer een mailtje lazen van Afrikaanse artsen, die ons bedankten omdat ze met onze software succes hadden geboekt in de strijd tegen malaria, was het wel een paar minuten stil.' Nog zo'n moment: Nasa bleek de data die Rover, het wagentje dat op Mars rondsnuffelde, te analyseren met Elastic. 'Toen waren we echt trots: de Nasa!'

Als je het succes van Elastic afmeet aan de hoeveelheid geld die het te verbranden heeft, opereert het bij de wereldtop. Gelet op het aantal downloads van zijn software - 1 miljoen per maand, tot nu toe samen 30 miljoen - heeft Schuurman ook de wereld in zijn zak. Maar: hoe zit het met het verdienmodel? 'Tja, de software zelf is een soort van gratis. We moeten nu commercialiseren, geld verdienen door klanten te helpen.'

Abonnement
Net als andere open sourcebedrijven moet Elastic verdienen aan diensten rond de software en de extra functies die het toevoegt aan zijn producten en niet deelt met de gemeenschap. Encryptie is zo'n extra die alleen betalende klanten tot hun beschikking hebben. Onmisbaar voor wie met privacy-gevoelige informatie werkt en aan strenge regels is gebonden.

Publicado por ahospers hace alrededor de 1 año (Marca)

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